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  • Aggregation of pensions

    A query discussed at work today.

    Thanks to EU law, someone who has worked in several EU countries will see the aggregation of his working periods in different national systems and pro-rata benefits from each country for pension purposes. See State pensions abroad - Your Europe

    How will this be affected by Brexit? In the computation of my European pension, will the period in the UK only be counted until Brexit date, ignoring the years post-Brexit? And how is the computation of my UK pension affected by years of service in Europe before and after Brexit?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
    A query discussed at work today.

    Thanks to EU law, someone who has worked in several EU countries will see the aggregation of his working periods in different national systems and pro-rata benefits from each country for pension purposes. See State pensions abroad - Your Europe

    How will this be affected by Brexit? In the computation of my European pension, will the period in the UK only be counted until Brexit date, ignoring the years post-Brexit? And how is the computation of my UK pension affected by years of service in Europe before and after Brexit?

    Thanks.
    Morning,

    Last Friday I attended a meeting at the Home Office, where we also had a DWP rep answering questions, and this one came up. He said that it was the UK's intention to continue with the aggregation of pensions, but this depends on the other EU countries agreeing.

    As with many other things that rely on the other EU countries, the deal would have sorted this out, however, in the event of no deal, it would depend on whether an agreement is reached on this particular issue.

    With regards to the UK state pension, aggregation is only significant if you have less than 10 years' NICs in the UK at the time you reach retirement age, because you need at least 10 years to get your pro-rata state pension from the UK, so, with 10 years or more, you'd still get your UK state pension regardless of aggregation. I assume other EU countries may have similar rules.

    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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    • #3
      Thanks. Not very promising at the moment. I'd call it worrying!

      Comment


      • #4
        This will depends on arrangements between each and every EU country and the UK, as the EU cannot force a pension agreement between a member state and non-EU member states (I've read this somewhere recently but I can't find the source right now). Most EU countries have a bilateral agreement with the UK that predates the EU. Italy, for example, has one with the UK and will fall back to it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PorkScratcher View Post
          This will depends on arrangements between each and every EU country and the UK, as the EU cannot force a pension agreement between a member state and non-EU member states (I've read this somewhere recently but I can't find the source right now). Most EU countries have a bilateral agreement with the UK that predates the EU. Italy, for example, has one with the UK and will fall back to it.
          If there was a deal, this would be one of the issues covered under the deal, which would apply to all EU countries (not sure whether the deal would extend to non EU EEA countries and Switzerland as well though). Obviously bi-lateral agreements can be made with individual countries in the event of no deal.

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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          • #6
            How are the 10 year calculated? Are the financial years, calendar years, or just how long one has contributed?

            Example: does someone who started working in the UK in September 2009 and who decides to quit in September 2019 qualify?

            Thank you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
              How are the 10 year calculated? Are the financial years, calendar years, or just how long one has contributed?

              Example: does someone who started working in the UK in September 2009 and who decides to quit in September 2019 qualify?

              Thank you.
              Years are based on tax years from April to April. It is possible to pay voluntary contributions to fill in gaps if necessary/worthwhile, although this is only possible for a certain number of years after the gap occurred.

              You can view your NI record online: Check your National Insurance record - GOV.UK

              It will show you if you have any gaps and how much you'd have to pay to plug the gap, and whether it's still possible to pay for that gap.

              You can also get a pension forecast here: Check your State Pension forecast - GOV.UK

              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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              • #8
                NI record online: it shows 10 years with the mention "full year" but actually I know that the first one is only a half year and it is reflected in the amount paid (about half of the following years). The contributions paid this FY are still missing. However, at the top right it says "13 years of full contributions" which is impossible (I have only been in the UK 9 years and 11 months!). So, how do I interpret this contradictory information? It does not mention gaps and to pay for gaps.

                Cheers


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
                  NI record online: it shows 10 years with the mention "full year" but actually I know that the first one is only a half year and it is reflected in the amount paid (about half of the following years). The contributions paid this FY are still missing. However, at the top right it says "13 years of full contributions" which is impossible (I have only been in the UK 9 years and 11 months!). So, how do I interpret this contradictory information?
                  Qualifying years are defined as:

                  A ‘qualifying year’ is a tax year (April to April) during which you have paid, have been treated as having paid or have been credited with enough National Insurance Contributions (NICs) to make that year qualify towards a Basic State Pension.

                  Since 1978 a qualifying year is one in which you have paid (or treated as having paid) contributions on earnings of at least 52 times the Lower Earnings Limit. For the year 2019-20 the lower earnings limit is £118/week so you would need to have been paying NICs on a salary of £6,136 at least. Since 6th April 2010- 6th April 2016

                  From 6th April 2010 a qualifying year is any year in which your earnings factor is equal to or more than the Lower Earnings Level for that year.
                  Sometimes NICs are credited even when you don't pay them, for example, while in receipt of certain benefits.

                  When I look at my record, it shows full years during a year in the early '90s where I wasn't here most of that year, it's not the sort of thing one tends to complain about.
                  Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
                  It does not mention gaps and to pay for gaps.
                  By what you say above, it looks like you have only years regarded as full years, otherwise you would see something that says "year not full" and, under "View details", it would show how much you can pay.

                  I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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                  • #10
                    Ok, thanks. Looks like I have done my 10 years, then. I can now leave Brexitland and draw my pension :-)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
                      Ok, thanks. Looks like I have done my 10 years, then. I can now leave Brexitland and draw my pension :-)
                      ...when you reach the relevant age...

                      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PorkScratcher View Post
                        This will depends on arrangements between each and every EU country and the UK, as the EU cannot force a pension agreement between a member state and non-EU member states (I've read this somewhere recently but I can't find the source right now). Most EU countries have a bilateral agreement with the UK that predates the EU. Italy, for example, has one with the UK and will fall back to it.
                        EDIT: Late, but mandatory apology. I was wrong. There is no bilateral pension agreement between Italy and the UK. I got it mixed up with the double tax agreement. Sorry for the confusion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is an old query of mine, no proper answer was given pending the final Brexit arrangements. Now I suppose we should know, thus I am re-posting it:

                          Thanks to EU law, someone who has worked in several EU countries will see the aggregation of his working periods in different national systems and pro-rata benefits from each country for pension purposes. See State pensions abroad - Your Europe: State pensions abroad - Your Europe

                          How will this be affected by Brexit? In the computation of my European pension, will the period in the UK only be counted until Brexit date, ignoring the years post-Brexit?

                          Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
                            This is an old query of mine, no proper answer was given pending the final Brexit arrangements. Now I suppose we should know, thus I am re-posting it:

                            Thanks to EU law, someone who has worked in several EU countries will see the aggregation of his working periods in different national systems and pro-rata benefits from each country for pension purposes. See State pensions abroad - Your Europe: State pensions abroad - Your Europe

                            How will this be affected by Brexit? In the computation of my European pension, will the period in the UK only be counted until Brexit date, ignoring the years post-Brexit?

                            Thanks.
                            Morning,

                            I've moved this new post to the existing thread about this as it relates to the same issue.

                            Aron F (lawyer) Would you be able to comment on this?

                            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NaughtyEuropean View Post
                              This is an old query of mine, no proper answer was given pending the final Brexit arrangements. Now I suppose we should know, thus I am re-posting it:

                              Thanks to EU law, someone who has worked in several EU countries will see the aggregation of his working periods in different national systems and pro-rata benefits from each country for pension purposes. See State pensions abroad - Your Europe: State pensions abroad - Your Europe

                              How will this be affected by Brexit? In the computation of my European pension, will the period in the UK only be counted until Brexit date, ignoring the years post-Brexit?

                              Thanks.
                              Morning,

                              Aron F (lawyer) Would you be able to comment on this?

                              I am the Group Founder and also an Admin, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and ResponsibilitiesIf you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

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