Aggregation of pensions

[ClaudLatina]

NaughtyEuropean unfortunately we have been unable to address your questions. For questions outside the scope of the forum we cannot always provide answers.

Best,

[PorkScratcher]

ClaudLatina I am planning to accrue information about this topic and update the this forum (give me time, though). Would that be fine for you and UKCEN? If so, should I update this topic or create a new thread?

[ClaudLatina]

ClaudLatina I am planning to accrue information about this topic and update the this forum (give me time, though). Would that be fine for you and UKCEN? If so, should I update this topic or create a new thread?

That is great thank you, please post any updates in this thread and then we will make sure the info is transferred in our resources post. Thank you.

[Site Admin]

ClaudLatina I am planning to accrue information about this topic and update the this forum (give me time, though). Would that be fine for you and UKCEN? If so, should I update this topic or create a new thread?

Morning,

Yes, it would be lovely to have accurate, reliable information on this subject.

[PorkScratcher]

ClaudLatina Site Admin For starters, I have just made an official query at the EU press office team. I am not expecting anything but we'll take it from there. I'd have to go through last year's Withdrawal Agreements (both), select and dissect the relevant bits and see what comes through. I'll also query the Italian government and, if necessary, submit a Freedom of Information request somewhere. Again, I'm not expecting anything, but let's see.

[PorkScratcher]

Meanwhile, on the latest edition of DWP Touchbase (archived for posterity), one can read:

UK state pension recipients retiring to the EU will carry on receiving their UK State Pension, which will be increased each year in the EU in line with the rate paid in the UK.

I find the wording ambiguous.

1) UK state pension recipients = I assume that include any recipients, including foreign citizens.
2) will carry on receiving their UK State Pension = this doesn't clarify if the acquired rights stop at 31.12.2020 or will be carried forward indefinitely till the end of the contribution period.

I'll work on these two points as I am planning to retire somewhere in the EU.

[Site Admin]

Meanwhile, on the latest edition of DWP Touchbase (archived for posterity), one can read:



I find the wording ambiguous.

1) UK state pension recipients = I assume that include any recipients, including foreign citizens.
2) will carry on receiving their UK State Pension = this doesn't clarify if the acquired rights stop at 31.12.2020 or will be carried forward indefinitely till the end of the contribution period.

I'll work on these two points as I am planning to retire somewhere in the EU.

Yes, those who retired before the end of the transition should keep having the increases in their pensions, but the question relates to those who retire later on.
You are not the only one who i$ intere$ted in thi$!

But this is yet another layer, separate from the aggregation, which is for people who worked in another EU country. Not applicable to me, having lived here since the '80s, but I'm sure a lot of people would want clarity on this point!

[PorkScratcher]

Site Admin ClaudLatina Aron F I have just received this reply from Europe Direct:

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

Regarding your enquiry, a person will not lose the periods worked in the EU and in the UK, which will be taken into consideration when their benefits will be determined and calculated (e.g. unemployment benefits, old-age and survivors' pensions).

Periods worked in the UK and the EU will also be taken into account when determining a person's entitlement to invalidity benefits.

For more information, please see below:
Press corner | European Commission

Is this something that would put our mind at rest? Is there anything that I can ask them to expand?

[Site Admin]

Site Admin ClaudLatina Aron F I have just received this reply from Europe Direct:



Is this something that would put our mind at rest? Is there anything that I can ask them to expand?

Hello there,

That was very good news and such a quick response!

Many thanks for taking the trouble with all this, it's very much appreciated.

At the moment, I can't think of anything, but I'm sure something will come up at some point.

[NaughtyEuropean]

Thank you very much: this sounds good! I was getting more and more pessimistic about remaining in the UK after Brexit, but now I know that I will only be indirectly affected like the whole population (through the effect of trade barriers) but not suffer in a direct unjust way. Many thanks!

[PorkScratcher]

NaughtyEuropean I would still be cautious and let the changes trickle down a bit before we celebrate too soon. Technically speaking, the so called "deal" hasn't even been ratified by the European Parliament yet. Then, we'll need to see how member states will implement the new regulations. Let's keep this thread open and "work-in-progress".

[Site Admin]

NaughtyEuropean I would still be cautious and let the changes trickle down a bit before we celebrate too soon. Technically speaking, the so called "deal" hasn't even been ratified by the European Parliament yet. Then, we'll need to see how member states will implement the new regulations. Let's keep this thread open and "work-in-progress".

Morning,

Just to clarify, are you referring to the deal that would allow the aggregation of pensions, as the one not yet ratified?

[Site Admin]

Thank you very much: this sounds good! I was getting more and more pessimistic about remaining in the UK after Brexit, but now I know that I will only be indirectly affected like the whole population (through the effect of trade barriers) but not suffer in a direct unjust way. Many thanks!

This issue would only affect those people who worked in another EU country and who, by the time they reach retirement age, haven't got at least 10 years' worth of NICs in the UK, which is the minimum required to get any state pension. Obviously with only 10 years, you would only get a fraction of the full pension, but the point is, you wouldn't need to rely on aggregation with another EU country if you have 10+ years' NICs in the UK, at least from the UK perspective, so the longest you stay and pay NICs in the UK, the better, and NICs are also credited when you are claming benefits, not just when you work. Obvioiusly I don't know what the rules are in other countries, such as how many years other countries require in order for you to get some state pension from that country without aggregation, whether their state pensions are similar to the UK, etc. so this is only from the UK perspective.

[PorkScratcher]

Morning,

Just to clarify, are you referring to the deal that would allow the aggregation of pensions, as the one not yet ratified?

I'm referring to the so-called Trade Deal, signed on 24.12,2020, approved by the UK parliament on 30.12.2020 but not yet official passed by the European Parliament. There's no specific deal for social security cooperation; however the so-called Trade Deal also includes a "PROTOCOL ON SOCIAL SECURITY COORDINATION" (page 1132-1163 of [1])

[1] Link

[PorkScratcher]

This issue would only affect those people who worked in another EU country and who, by the time they reach retirement age, haven't got at least 10 years' worth of NICs in the UK.

The issue will also affect EU citizens who have paid state pension contributions in UK before and/or after the cut-off date of 31.12.2020 and then migrate (back) to another EU country and intend to retire there.

For example, and correct me if I'm wrong, in Italy one needs 35 years of pension contributions to retire with state pension. I, for example, have 19 years of contributions in UK. If the principle of aggregation of periods were not to be applied for periods after 1.1.2021, I would never get the required 35 years to receive a pension in Italy, assuming I keep on paying contributions for the next 16 years (although I could possibly receive my UK pension over there, but that's a different story).