Please support us so we can help others

>> CLICK HERE TO START A NEW POST <<

(you need to log in to post)

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Continuous residence defintion and weekly cross border commuting

Collapse
X
Collapse
Who has read this thread:
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Continuous residence defintion and weekly cross border commuting

    Hi everyone,
    I have a question on the continuous residence requirement for settled status. For much of the last six years I have been commuting weekly to Brussels on Mondays, returning on Thursdays or Fridays, and if I count days abroad I would, including holidays, reach more than 183 days. The last year I have been working mostly from home so I am ok for 2020, and could apply now for pre-settled status, but if I have to start commuting again when lockdowns are lifted, I would risk being again more than 183 days abroad. My concern is that in such a scenario I might never get settled status. My question is whether this definition of residence can be challenged because in no year have I been 183 days in Belgium ( the remaining days of the years were in third countries). So if Belgium applied the same definition as the UK I would be resident nowhere!
    A second question relates to the evidence required. They ask for bankstatements and I can provide these for every month of the last 5 years. Would that then qualify for continuous residence ?
    I would appreciate your views on this, perhaps from comparable experiences.

  • #2
    Louis M (lawyer) Would you be able to comment on the above situation? Would the provision for people who start working in another EU country and return once a week apply here?

    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

    Comment


    • #3
      Only whole days' absences are counted. E.g. if you leave the UK on 1 March and and return on 3 March, that would count as a single day's absence. Have you accounted for that? Bank statements are good evidence of residence.

      I am an immigration solicitor regulated by the Law Society of England and Wales.  I work at Truth Legal Solicitors where I am Head of Immigration. I am also a volunteer with UKCEN, where I provide one-off advice on a pro-bono basis. This advice should not be considered a substitute for formal legal advice. Please see Louis M for full details.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, on this UKSS definition I have been outside the UK for 183-195 days in three of the last five years (time spent in third EU countries , incl country of my birth). If we go back to the office, I may end up again with years in which I am more than 183 days outside the UK. But my point is that if Belgium was to apply the same definition, I would not be resident there either, so I would be a resident of nowhere.
        As I understand it, bankstatements showing one day presence in a month count as evidence? I could show these.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ellis View Post
          Yes, on this UKSS definition I have been outside the UK for 183-195 days in three of the last five years (time spent in third EU countries , incl country of my birth). If we go back to the office, I may end up again with years in which I am more than 183 days outside the UK. But my point is that if Belgium was to apply the same definition, I would not be resident there either, so I would be a resident of nowhere.
          As I understand it, bankstatements showing one day presence in a month count as evidence? I could show these.
          Hello again,

          Settled status applications do not ask you to list all time spent outside the UK, applicants are only asked for evidence of being here 6 months out of every 12 and, as you point out, documents with a single date are counted towards that month, as noted here: Providing evidence

          ...where we have:


          A document with a single date on will count as proof of residence for that month only, for example a monthly electricity bill, an official letter or a GP appointment card.

          Documents with a start and end date will cover the period between the two dates.

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok thanks. That would mean there is no need to count days then in my case. So a council tax bill would cover it too, and for a whole year?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ellis View Post
              Ok thanks. That would mean there is no need to count days then in my case. So a council tax bill would cover it too, and for a whole year?
              Yes it would, however, I can't tell you whether they would decide to ask for additional evidence if they suspected residence had been broken.

              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

              Comment


              • #8
                OK. I was granted pre-settled status and decided not to challenge this, because my situation remains unclear to me. Formally I do not fulfill the 183 days criterion pre 2019, but the evidence they ask for is not really watertight for that, as a council tax bill seems to be sufficient. I did not want to try that as I am pretty sure that I will not run into problems in coming years as I will not be commuting as much anymore, and thus easily fulfill the 183 days in the UK criterion in 2021-23. I can then apply again for settled status in end 2023. But the principle of defining continuous residence as in UKSS seems wrong to me, as a person in my position, weekly commuting, would be resident nowhere.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ellis View Post
                  OK. I was granted pre-settled status and decided not to challenge this, because my situation remains unclear to me. Formally I do not fulfill the 183 days criterion pre 2019, but the evidence they ask for is not really watertight for that, as a council tax bill seems to be sufficient. I did not want to try that as I am pretty sure that I will not run into problems in coming years as I will not be commuting as much anymore, and thus easily fulfill the 183 days in the UK criterion in 2021-23. I can then apply again for settled status in end 2023. But the principle of defining continuous residence as in UKSS seems wrong to me, as a person in my position, weekly commuting, would be resident nowhere.
                  Thank you for the update.

                  Tim M (lawyer) do you think it is worth re-applying for settled status - is there a provision for people who travel for work?

                  I am the Group Founder and also an Admin, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and ResponsibilitiesIf you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ellis View Post
                    OK. I was granted pre-settled status and decided not to challenge this, because my situation remains unclear to me. Formally I do not fulfill the 183 days criterion pre 2019, but the evidence they ask for is not really watertight for that, as a council tax bill seems to be sufficient. I did not want to try that as I am pretty sure that I will not run into problems in coming years as I will not be commuting as much anymore, and thus easily fulfill the 183 days in the UK criterion in 2021-23. I can then apply again for settled status in end 2023. But the principle of defining continuous residence as in UKSS seems wrong to me, as a person in my position, weekly commuting, would be resident nowhere.
                    Afternoon,

                    Actually, there is a provision under EU rules for people who start work in another EU country, and this is echoed in the provisions for settled status, however, it's not well known, since there aren't many people in this position. If you look here: Settled status in less than 5 years.

                    ...you'll see:

                    You, and your family members, can get settled status with less than 5 years’ continuous residence in certain situations.

                    [...]

                    If you start work or self-employment in another EU country
                    You can get settled status if you start work or self-employment in another EU country and you both:
                    • have lived and worked or been self-employed in the UK continuously for 3 years beforehand; and
                    • usually return to your UK home once a week.
                    Family members of an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen at the time they start work or self-employment in another EU country may also be eligible for settled status.

                    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for this advice, but it does not help me as I do not satisfy the first criterion. I am not worried for myself because I will commute less in coming years and expect to qualify for settled status in a few years time. But it is the principle that seems wrong to me. It is bad enough that we, weekly commuters, can be called ‘citizens of nowhere’ , but on this legal definition of residency for UKSS we can also end up as residents nowhere.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ellis View Post
                        Thanks for this advice, but it does not help me as I do not satisfy the first criterion. I am not worried for myself because I will commute less in coming years and expect to qualify for settled status in a few years time. But it is the principle that seems wrong to me. It is bad enough that we, weekly commuters, can be called ‘citizens of nowhere’ , but on this legal definition of residency for UKSS we can also end up as residents nowhere.
                        Afternoon,

                        I'm not sure what you are referring to, since international commuting does not affect your citizenship in any way, so there are no "citizens of nowhere". As for residence, there are also provisions for frontier workers, but if you say this does not affect you, then there's not much point discussing the subject, as we'd need to look at the specific circumstances of the individual, we are not a general discussion group.

                        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It was indeed a general point I was raising: a weekly commuter, with no prior residency in the UK, could exceed the 183 days limit outside the UK . If other EU countries were to apply a similar definition of residency then that person would be resident nowhere. I would fall in that category if we ever go back to 5 days in the office, something I assumed would happen when I first wrote to you. Now it has become a hypothetical question. Thanks.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X