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EU Settlement Scheme : Re-applying for pre-settled status and evidences required

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    I want to re-apply for the pre-settled status. I am planning to re-apply for it in June 2021. Am I eligible to re-apply for the pre-settled status?!
    Hello, there is one point: if this would work, all the millions people with pre-settled would do so. It would mean all the people with pre settled would extend their pre-settled until at least June 2026 this way. I have no clue about law, but from logical point of view your second application would be voided and tyour existing pre-settled would continue. This would only work if you have been out more then 2 years, which is in your case not possible.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ijk View Post

      Hello, I have sent you an email with the details. I would really appreciate you can go through it and do the needful.
      Thank you so much for your great efforts !
      Afternoon,

      I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info.

      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by frank View Post

        Hello, there is one point: if this would work, all the millions people with pre-settled would do so. It would mean all the people with pre settled would extend their pre-settled until at least June 2026 this way. I have no clue about law, but from logical point of view your second application would be voided and tyour existing pre-settled would continue. This would only work if you have been out more then 2 years, which is in your case not possible.
        Actually, this provision is allowed for by Home Office themselves, and no, your second application is not voided, as noted here: Multiple applications and re-applying

        ...where you'll see:


        On page 51 of the EUSS Guidance you'll find:

        Further applications

        An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time. This means that, where a further valid application under the EU Settlement Scheme has been made after an earlier application under it has been decided:
        • if the earlier application resulted in refusal, rejection, withdrawal, treatment as void or in any outcome other than a grant of leave under the scheme, then the latest application must be considered in the normal way
        • if the earlier application resulted in settled status being granted, the further application must be treated as void
        • if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way
        If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

        If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.
        That's all written in BW in the guidance. And no, if you have been out for two years, then your pre-settled status would have lapsed, so in that case, it wouldn't work, since you would no longer have a valid status to extend in the first place. I hope this clarifies matters.

        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

        Comment


        • #19
          Afternoon,

          I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info.
          Thank you so much for taking it ahead.

          Can we expect EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021 ? Otherwise, it will be of no use after 30-June-2021

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ijk View Post

            The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.
            !! This is a very hot issue !! I have read the original document many times and seen nothing else as you (Admin). So because gov lawyers make no mistakes, the only explanation is that they must have done it this way to comply with EU right and the EU-UK Withdrawal agreement. I am now considering to reapply too for a new extended pre-settled. And millions other who have evidence for end December 2020 can do it too. Now we can bet what is really going to happen: my bet: I think ijks, my and the applications of hopefully other millions of re-applicants will be put on hold, and the gov wil reset the expiration date of all pre-settled to, say, August 2026, when the scheme has been closed. Otherwise, the lawyers savage the gov because of the apparent unequality between who re-applied and who didn't and because the gov advised the people to apply soon, but didn't advise the people to re-apply in June.

            @Ijk: why do you want EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021? We are fine, first we have the old pre-settled and then the new one.

            Comment


            • #21
              I am now considering to reapply too for a new extended pre-settled
              Dear frank , before re-applying, you may want to call EUSS and ask them if by any chance your 2nd application for pre-settle status gets rejected then what will happen to your 1st application? If they say that your 1st successful application will also get rejected if the 2nd application gets rejected then it is up to you what to do.

              I have been calling EUSS since last 20 days, 2 times every day, asking the same question - "What will happen to my 1st successful application if my 2nd application gets rejected". On this question, I got different different answers. 99% of the advisors on the call told me that if the 2nd application is rejected then it will replace the 1st application. This means, it will also reject the 1st application and you will become stateless in UK. I also asked the advisor on the call to refer to the page 52 of the EUSS Guidance Me and the advisor both went through the entire page reading and explaining each other the scenarios. However, the very hot scenario which we are discussing here is not mentioned in the Guidance but only one line - "An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time". Advisor on the call also agreed with me. So, he put me on hold, confirmed with his supervisor, came back on the call and confirmed that if the 2nd application gets rejected then it will replace the 1st application.

              @Ijk: why do you want EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021? We are fine, first we have the old pre-settled and then the new one.
              There is a risk in applying for the pre-settled status again as it may flip the situation and all of a sudden one can become stateless!!

              One of the advisor on the call told me that it is a gamble to re-apply for the pre-settle status as you may lose your 1st pre-settle status if the 2nd application gets rejected. Hence in such a confusing situation, it is always advisable to have this scenario addressed by EUSS, explain why the advisors are giving such information which is not documented in the Guidance, and get that in writing/documented that even though the 2nd application for pre-settle status gets rejected, it will not impact the 1st successful application. If this happens before 30-June-2021 then there is no risk of re-applying. But, if this is addressed after 30-June-2021, then even if someone wants to re-apply, what is the use, as the deadline to apply for it is 30-June-2021. Isn't it?

              My concern is not only about re-applying for pre-settle status but also to know why the EUSS advisors on the call are giving such information which is not documented. Are they not well trained? Don't they have sufficient, correct information to pass on? If by any chance, they are passing wrong information to the users on the call then should it not be escalated? Shouldn't we get in to the root of this and find out why such a contradiction in the provided information? My lesson learnt from this incident is that I should not trust on the advisors on the call until I have that information in writing/documented by EUSS.

              Again few years down the line, for applying settle status, people will call EUSS and trust on what the advisors on the call are telling, based on the received information apply and when the application gets rejected, then realize that information received was not correct. No body would want this to happen with the people. Isn't it?

              From my experience I can say that the information/rules change from advisor to advisor on the call. Would you like to take the risk for re-applying?

              I am tired of this EUSS and with their confusing answers. Hence I handed this matter over to the UKCEN lawyers to get in to the root.

              Comment


              • #22
                Hello Ijk,

                Originally posted by ijk View Post
                There is a risk in applying for the pre-settled status again as it may flip the situation and all of a sudden one can become stateless!!.
                Here i disagree.

                let us discuss the relevant text in chapter "Further applications" page 52 detailed:

                "if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way"
                - I think we both understand this senntence in the same way, it means our new applications will be processed normal (not voided and so on)

                "If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status."
                - states that if the outcome of the new application would be "SETTLED" IT WOULD REPLACE the old application and we would have settled. Not our case because we have not evidence for so long

                Now it comes the repetition of the above sentence, but with "pre-settled":
                If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.
                - states that if the outcome of the new application would be "PRE-SETTLED" IT WOULD REPLACE the old application and we would have pre-settled again. Thats our very probable case.

                !!! There is no 3rd repetiotion like !!!:
                If you give refused status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

                !!! There is also no general sentence like:
                The outcome of the new application will replace the outcome of the old application.

                Under te bottom line:
                Only if the they grant "SETTLED" or "PRE-SETTLED" status for the new application, only in those cases the old application outcome is going to be replaced. Otherwise, the old application outcome ist not going to be replaced and the grant (pre-settled) stays.

                The following sentences describe how the dates will be changed if the grant is replaced. Here I think we have the same understanding again.



                When you are bit IT guy like me, here in Java:

                if (you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status)
                {
                ...it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status;
                }

                else if (you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status)
                {
                ...it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status;
                }

                else
                {
                ...NOTHING HAPPENS. THE OLD OUTCOME WONT BE REPLACED -> old pre-settled remains;
                }

                Nice to discuss the stuff with you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ijk View Post

                  Thank you so much for taking it ahead.

                  Can we expect EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021 ? Otherwise, it will be of no use after 30-June-2021
                  Morning,

                  To clarify, the email is just about the wrong info being provided, just for internal training purposes, as it is obvious that the info provided by the person who answered the phone was not correct, as it goes against what's written in BW in the guidance, which I have linked and copied above.

                  I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by frank View Post

                    !! This is a very hot issue !! I have read the original document many times and seen nothing else as you (Admin). So because gov lawyers make no mistakes, the only explanation is that they must have done it this way to comply with EU right and the EU-UK Withdrawal agreement. I am now considering to reapply too for a new extended pre-settled. And millions other who have evidence for end December 2020 can do it too. Now we can bet what is really going to happen: my bet: I think ijks, my and the applications of hopefully other millions of re-applicants will be put on hold, and the gov wil reset the expiration date of all pre-settled to, say, August 2026, when the scheme has been closed. Otherwise, the lawyers savage the gov because of the apparent unequality between who re-applied and who didn't and because the gov advised the people to apply soon, but didn't advise the people to re-apply in June.

                    @Ijk: why do you want EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021? We are fine, first we have the old pre-settled and then the new one.
                    I'm sorry but this is pure speculation, there is nothing that indicates either that all applications will be put on hold, nor that they will reset everyone's pre-settled expiry date to August 2026. Obviously I can't guess what will happen in 5 years' time, but there is nothing to base these assumptions on. This works both ways, people who obtained pre-settled in 2019/2020 should NOT expect it to last till August 2026, unless there was an official announcement of some sort.

                    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ijk View Post
                      Dear frank , before re-applying, you may want to call EUSS and ask them if by any chance your 2nd application for pre-settle status gets rejected then what will happen to your 1st application? If they say that your 1st successful application will also get rejected if the 2nd application gets rejected then it is up to you what to do.
                      There is no reason to call them about this, since it's very clearly written in the guidance:
                      Further applications

                      An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time. This means that, where a further valid application under the EU Settlement Scheme has been made after an earlier application under it has been decided:
                      • if the earlier application resulted in refusal, rejection, withdrawal, treatment as void or in any outcome other than a grant of leave under the scheme, then the latest application must be considered in the normal way
                      • if the earlier application resulted in settled status being granted, the further application must be treated as void
                      • if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way
                      If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

                      If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.
                      The earlier application is unaffected in any event.

                      Originally posted by ijk View Post
                      I have been calling EUSS since last 20 days, 2 times every day, asking the same question - "What will happen to my 1st successful application if my 2nd application gets rejected". On this question, I got different different answers. 99% of the advisors on the call told me that if the 2nd application is rejected then it will replace the 1st application. This means, it will also reject the 1st application and you will become stateless in UK.
                      Stateless? That is a completely different thing! It means not having citizenship from any country, which clearly couldn't happen, since the Home Office wouldn't be able to revoke your citizenship of your country of origin, not even if you were a terrorist and a serial killer! You probably mean without status, however, as previously discussed, this isn't the case.

                      Originally posted by ijk View Post
                      I also asked the advisor on the call to refer to the page 52 of the EUSS Guidance Me and the advisor both went through the entire page reading and explaining each other the scenarios. However, the very hot scenario which we are discussing here is not mentioned in the Guidance but only one line - "An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time". Advisor on the call also agreed with me. So, he put me on hold, confirmed with his supervisor, came back on the call and confirmed that if the 2nd application gets rejected then it will replace the 1st application.

                      There is a risk in applying for the pre-settled status again as it may flip the situation and all of a sudden one can become stateless!!
                      As above, this is wrong on both counts. Your original status remains unchanged and so does your nationality, so you wouldn't become stateless.


                      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Afternoon,

                        I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info
                        Hello,

                        Apologies as it will be too early to ask any updates on it as it is just 4 days that you forwarded the inquiry based on the email. But, have you got any reply from EUSS on this?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Further applications

                          An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time. This means that, where a further valid application under the EU Settlement Scheme has been made after an earlier application under it has been decided:
                          • if the earlier application resulted in refusal, rejection, withdrawal, treatment as void or in any outcome other than a grant of leave under the scheme, then the latest application must be considered in the normal way
                          • if the earlier application resulted in settled status being granted, the further application must be treated as void
                          • if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way
                          If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

                          If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.

                          The earlier application is unaffected in any event.
                          But, the line which you mentioned above "The earlier application is unaffected in any event." is not mentioned in the Guidelines. If it is not there, should we assume it?

                          They could have easily mentioned it as the 4th bullet point. But they didn't. On the top of that, the advisors on the call give completely different information that the 1st successful pre-settle application will be replaced by the 2nd rejected pre-settle application. The advisor on the call not only say this but also confirms that he/she has confirmed with their supervisor and it is correct as per them and their supervisor.

                          If EUSS could have mentioned this point in the Guidelines then there would have not been any discrepancy in the advisors' statements on the call. We could have immediately requested them to refer to page 52 of the Guideline.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ijk View Post
                            They could have easily mentioned it as the 4th bullet point. But they didn't.
                            Because this would be redundat with what have been stated before.

                            So when you re-aply and the outcome of your second application is:

                            1) settled: there is a problem because you would have 1+1=2 grants, not alowed!! So they resolve it by replacing the earlier grant, so you would have 1 grant again (settled)

                            2) pre-settled: there is a problem because you would have 1+1=2 grants, not alowed!! So they resolve it by replacing the earlier grant, so you would have 1 grant again (pre-settled, but later expiration date than before -> that's the clue of re-applying)

                            3) any other outcome(refused ..): you would have 1+0=1 grant, everything OK! No need to state anything more. Thats why the 4th bullet you mentioned isn't there

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              frank I am expecting the answers from the admin/lawyer. You have already commented earlier what you meant. There is no point in writing the same thing again and again

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Afternoon,

                                I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info
                                Hello,

                                Have you got any updates from EUSS on this issue?

                                Comment

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