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EU Settlement Scheme : Re-applying for pre-settled status and evidences required

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  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Hello,

    Thanks you for your reply.

    I called them on 11-June-2021 and asked the same question to the advisor if the 2nd pre-settle application is rejected then what will happen to the 1st application. And this time as well, I was told by the advisor that if the 2nd application gets rejected then it will surely replace the 1st successful application, even though this information is not mentioned in the guidance.

    However, I was also told that, this policy is under review and the advisor does not know if the review will be completed by 30-June-2021 or not and what the final decision will be. I thought since someone has escalated this, the EUSS has taken a note of it and started working on it. In order to check if the policy is finalized, I called the EUSS on 15-June-2021 and asked the advisor if there is any decision made on the policy. Advisor on the call said that he has no idea on it.

    I also sent the same query to their online form a month ago so that I will get the reply. I got their reply and as expected it was of no use because they have mentioned in the email the steps how to apply for EU Settlement Scheme, How to apply as an EU national without a biometric passport, How to apply as a non-EEA National without a biometric residence card, How to apply for a child, How to apply with no identity document or an expired document.... My query was not answered ! From this, it seems that they have an automated email which is sent to to any kind of query.

    At least it is good to know that this particular policy is under review but it will be bad if the policy is not finalized before 30-June-2021.

    Policy being reviewed shows that the EUSS is thinking over it and if the 2nd rejected pre-settle status application is not replacing the 1st successful status (as per you), then why would there be a need to review it?
    Hello again,

    As per my post on the other thread, I have forwarded a further enquiry about this after yesterday's meeting:

    A number of people who broke their continuity of residence due to Covid decided to make a new application for pre-settled status to restart their residence, this was also indicated in the previous version of the Covid provisions published at the end of December 2020 and provided for in the guidance, where it is stated that a new grant of pre-settled status would extend the validity of the current leave, while the start date of their leave remains the unchanged. However, when contacting the EUSS resolution centre over the phone, people have been told that, in the event their second application for pre-settled status was unsuccessful on eligibility grounds (usually because they were not able to prove residence under 6 months ago, despite being here before the end of last year), their original leave would be revoked, effectively leaving them out of status! This is in direct contradiction to what the written guidance says, and it’s quite concerning that people are being told their initial status would be revoked.
    I can't see how this particular policy can be "under review", I suspect they may have got things mixed up with the Covid provisions to allow extra time out of the UK, those were the ones under review, you will recall they had been withdrawn back in April/May and only replaced with the new ones a week ago. You may remember that the old provisions ended up saying "If you broke your residence by spending more than 12 months out of the UK, you need to restart your residence period before the end of December 2020". Which tied in with the need to make a new application, as that would be the only way to restart your residence. Under the new provisions, there is even an allowance to spend over 12 months out of the UK, so this is very likely the policy that was under review and not the one about multiple applications, but this ties in, because people were making new applications as instructed in the old provisions from December, if you see what I mean.

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    Afternoon,

    Just to clarify, the reason for contacting them on this was because it looked like they were giving out the wrong information and, obviously, that wasn't very helpful if others also received the wrong info, not because we really needed to confirm that a new application does not revoke the original status, that's already written in the guidance in BW as per our earlier discussions. You don't need to take my word for it, you can see for yourself how they are instructed to handle multiple applications, there is no mention of a second one revoking the first, only that, if successful, the second would extend the validity of the pre-settled status. So the question was just for them to make sure those who deal with enquiries do give out the correct info.
    Hello,

    Thanks you for your reply.

    I called them on 11-June-2021 and asked the same question to the advisor if the 2nd pre-settle application is rejected then what will happen to the 1st application. And this time as well, I was told by the advisor that if the 2nd application gets rejected then it will surely replace the 1st successful application, even though this information is not mentioned in the guidance.

    However, I was also told that, this policy is under review and the advisor does not know if the review will be completed by 30-June-2021 or not and what the final decision will be. I thought since someone has escalated this, the EUSS has taken a note of it and started working on it. In order to check if the policy is finalized, I called the EUSS on 15-June-2021 and asked the advisor if there is any decision made on the policy. Advisor on the call said that he has no idea on it.

    I also sent the same query to their online form a month ago so that I will get the reply. I got their reply and as expected it was of no use because they have mentioned in the email the steps how to apply for EU Settlement Scheme, How to apply as an EU national without a biometric passport, How to apply as a non-EEA National without a biometric residence card, How to apply for a child, How to apply with no identity document or an expired document.... My query was not answered ! From this, it seems that they have an automated email which is sent to to any kind of query.

    At least it is good to know that this particular policy is under review but it will be bad if the policy is not finalized before 30-June-2021.

    Policy being reviewed shows that the EUSS is thinking over it and if the 2nd rejected pre-settle status application is not replacing the 1st successful status (as per you), then why would there be a need to review it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Hello,

    Thanks for your reply. Can we request the EUSS if they can reply at least before 30-June-2021 as that being the last date to apply for EU Settlement Scheme. If they reply after 30-June-2021 then it will be of no use even if someone wants to re-apply for EU Settlement Scheme.

    Thanks for taking this ahead and keeping an eye on it. I really appreciate your efforts.
    Afternoon,

    Just to clarify, the reason for contacting them on this was because it looked like they were giving out the wrong information and, obviously, that wasn't very helpful if others also received the wrong info, not because we really needed to confirm that a new application does not revoke the original status, that's already written in the guidance in BW as per our earlier discussions. You don't need to take my word for it, you can see for yourself how they are instructed to handle multiple applications, there is no mention of a second one revoking the first, only that, if successful, the second would extend the validity of the pre-settled status. So the question was just for them to make sure those who deal with enquiries do give out the correct info.

    Leave a comment:


  • ClaudLatina
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Hello,

    Thanks for your reply. Can we request the EUSS if they can reply at least before 30-June-2021 as that being the last date to apply for EU Settlement Scheme. If they reply after 30-June-2021 then it will be of no use even if someone wants to re-apply for EU Settlement Scheme.

    Thanks for taking this ahead and keeping an eye on it. I really appreciate your efforts.
    Site Admin

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    I'm afraid not, responses may take a few days or longer at times.
    Hello,

    Thanks for your reply. Can we request the EUSS if they can reply at least before 30-June-2021 as that being the last date to apply for EU Settlement Scheme. If they reply after 30-June-2021 then it will be of no use even if someone wants to re-apply for EU Settlement Scheme.

    Thanks for taking this ahead and keeping an eye on it. I really appreciate your efforts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Hello,

    Have you got any updates from EUSS on this issue?
    I'm afraid not, responses may take a few days or longer at times.

    Leave a comment:


  • ClaudLatina
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Hello,

    Have you got any updates from EUSS on this issue?
    Site Admin

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    Afternoon,

    I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info
    Hello,

    Have you got any updates from EUSS on this issue?

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    frank I am expecting the answers from the admin/lawyer. You have already commented earlier what you meant. There is no point in writing the same thing again and again

    Leave a comment:


  • frank
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post
    They could have easily mentioned it as the 4th bullet point. But they didn't.
    Because this would be redundat with what have been stated before.

    So when you re-aply and the outcome of your second application is:

    1) settled: there is a problem because you would have 1+1=2 grants, not alowed!! So they resolve it by replacing the earlier grant, so you would have 1 grant again (settled)

    2) pre-settled: there is a problem because you would have 1+1=2 grants, not alowed!! So they resolve it by replacing the earlier grant, so you would have 1 grant again (pre-settled, but later expiration date than before -> that's the clue of re-applying)

    3) any other outcome(refused ..): you would have 1+0=1 grant, everything OK! No need to state anything more. Thats why the 4th bullet you mentioned isn't there

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    Further applications

    An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time. This means that, where a further valid application under the EU Settlement Scheme has been made after an earlier application under it has been decided:
    • if the earlier application resulted in refusal, rejection, withdrawal, treatment as void or in any outcome other than a grant of leave under the scheme, then the latest application must be considered in the normal way
    • if the earlier application resulted in settled status being granted, the further application must be treated as void
    • if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way
    If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

    If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.

    The earlier application is unaffected in any event.
    But, the line which you mentioned above "The earlier application is unaffected in any event." is not mentioned in the Guidelines. If it is not there, should we assume it?

    They could have easily mentioned it as the 4th bullet point. But they didn't. On the top of that, the advisors on the call give completely different information that the 1st successful pre-settle application will be replaced by the 2nd rejected pre-settle application. The advisor on the call not only say this but also confirms that he/she has confirmed with their supervisor and it is correct as per them and their supervisor.

    If EUSS could have mentioned this point in the Guidelines then there would have not been any discrepancy in the advisors' statements on the call. We could have immediately requested them to refer to page 52 of the Guideline.

    Leave a comment:


  • ijk
    replied
    Afternoon,

    I have received your email. Will forward an enquiry about this as we don't want people getting the wrong info
    Hello,

    Apologies as it will be too early to ask any updates on it as it is just 4 days that you forwarded the inquiry based on the email. But, have you got any reply from EUSS on this?

    Leave a comment:


  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post
    Dear frank , before re-applying, you may want to call EUSS and ask them if by any chance your 2nd application for pre-settle status gets rejected then what will happen to your 1st application? If they say that your 1st successful application will also get rejected if the 2nd application gets rejected then it is up to you what to do.
    There is no reason to call them about this, since it's very clearly written in the guidance:
    Further applications

    An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time. This means that, where a further valid application under the EU Settlement Scheme has been made after an earlier application under it has been decided:
    • if the earlier application resulted in refusal, rejection, withdrawal, treatment as void or in any outcome other than a grant of leave under the scheme, then the latest application must be considered in the normal way
    • if the earlier application resulted in settled status being granted, the further application must be treated as void
    • if the earlier application resulted in pre-settled status being granted, the further application must be considered in the normal way
    If you grant settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status.

    If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be five years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.
    The earlier application is unaffected in any event.

    Originally posted by ijk View Post
    I have been calling EUSS since last 20 days, 2 times every day, asking the same question - "What will happen to my 1st successful application if my 2nd application gets rejected". On this question, I got different different answers. 99% of the advisors on the call told me that if the 2nd application is rejected then it will replace the 1st application. This means, it will also reject the 1st application and you will become stateless in UK.
    Stateless? That is a completely different thing! It means not having citizenship from any country, which clearly couldn't happen, since the Home Office wouldn't be able to revoke your citizenship of your country of origin, not even if you were a terrorist and a serial killer! You probably mean without status, however, as previously discussed, this isn't the case.

    Originally posted by ijk View Post
    I also asked the advisor on the call to refer to the page 52 of the EUSS Guidance Me and the advisor both went through the entire page reading and explaining each other the scenarios. However, the very hot scenario which we are discussing here is not mentioned in the Guidance but only one line - "An applicant can only have one grant of limited or indefinite leave to enter or remain under the Immigration Rules at any one time". Advisor on the call also agreed with me. So, he put me on hold, confirmed with his supervisor, came back on the call and confirmed that if the 2nd application gets rejected then it will replace the 1st application.

    There is a risk in applying for the pre-settled status again as it may flip the situation and all of a sudden one can become stateless!!
    As above, this is wrong on both counts. Your original status remains unchanged and so does your nationality, so you wouldn't become stateless.


    Leave a comment:


  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by frank View Post

    !! This is a very hot issue !! I have read the original document many times and seen nothing else as you (Admin). So because gov lawyers make no mistakes, the only explanation is that they must have done it this way to comply with EU right and the EU-UK Withdrawal agreement. I am now considering to reapply too for a new extended pre-settled. And millions other who have evidence for end December 2020 can do it too. Now we can bet what is really going to happen: my bet: I think ijks, my and the applications of hopefully other millions of re-applicants will be put on hold, and the gov wil reset the expiration date of all pre-settled to, say, August 2026, when the scheme has been closed. Otherwise, the lawyers savage the gov because of the apparent unequality between who re-applied and who didn't and because the gov advised the people to apply soon, but didn't advise the people to re-apply in June.

    @Ijk: why do you want EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021? We are fine, first we have the old pre-settled and then the new one.
    I'm sorry but this is pure speculation, there is nothing that indicates either that all applications will be put on hold, nor that they will reset everyone's pre-settled expiry date to August 2026. Obviously I can't guess what will happen in 5 years' time, but there is nothing to base these assumptions on. This works both ways, people who obtained pre-settled in 2019/2020 should NOT expect it to last till August 2026, unless there was an official announcement of some sort.

    Leave a comment:


  • Site Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by ijk View Post

    Thank you so much for taking it ahead.

    Can we expect EUSS to resolve this before 30-June-2021 ? Otherwise, it will be of no use after 30-June-2021
    Morning,

    To clarify, the email is just about the wrong info being provided, just for internal training purposes, as it is obvious that the info provided by the person who answered the phone was not correct, as it goes against what's written in BW in the guidance, which I have linked and copied above.

    Leave a comment:

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