Peace and Solidarity

Announcement

Collapse

THIS FORUM IS NOW CLOSED

If you would like to see this valuable resource remain open as a respoitory, we need your help with the cost of hosting it: Help us keep this site online


Unfortunately our funding came to an end. We achieved what we set out to do since 2016, which was to help as many people as possible, to secure their status here in the UK after Brexit. It was a great pleasure to be here for all of you during all these years and to share the joy of all your success stories. Each and every success made our day, as did your support and very kind words.

See more
See less

Unfair refusal

Collapse
X
Collapse
Who has read this thread:
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Info required Unfair refusal

    We applied for a EUSS Family Permit (me being a British citizen returning to the UK) in July and got refused in October on very weak and inconsistent reasons. We can't understand why our decision was made so quickly when so many others are still waiting and who applied before us or at same time. Ours was classed as 'not straightforward' so it couldn't have been on the grounds that it was a simple application, also it was NOT done in date order as the HO states these applications are assessed on. Below are comments from a letter response from Kevin Foster, Immigration Minister, and my questions are this:

    ''provided very little evidence to demonstrate they were exercising EEA treaty rights, even following a request for further documentation.
    Furthermore, although there is some evidence of joint residence, it is not consistent. Ms *** contends the Home Office has refused to accept Mr *** as her ‘family member’ and has suggested the relationship is not genuine. This is not the case, as the Home Office accepts Mr and Ms *** are married.
    However, the basis of the refusal is the lack of evidence of EEA treaty rights being exercised and evidence of joint residence in France to prove genuine family life was created and strengthened there.''

    a) If he is agreeing the HO accept our marriage/relationship as genuine how can they refuse on the excuse we didn't prove a 'genuine family life was created and strengthened'? My husband joined me in Aug 2019 after giving up a good secure job in his non EU country so life was CREATED, we got married in June 2020 so our life was STRENGTHENED.

    B) I have lived in France for 19 years and we submitted evidence that I have worked in France or been registered as a job seeker from 2007 to 2017. Since 2017 I was deregistered as a job seeker due to an accident and ongoing problems but this still covered me as a worker (according to the Withdrawal Agreement). We also submitted an official email confirming my WA RP had been accepted but this was refused because it did not have the word 'permanent' on it. It states in Withdrawal Agreement that after 5 continuous years residence you are entitled to a 'permanent' WA RP. We received the refusal 20th October, my bio was done 25th and I received WA RP on November 8th. Should the HO have postponed the decision knowing receipt of WA RP was imminent instead of declaring me NOT to be a 'qualifying British Citizen'? Also in the ECO guidance notes it states that if the BC is NOT qualifying they should go straight to 6 which is to REFUSE WITHOUT assessing any more details in the application... did they assess other reasons because they knew they were wrong on the qualifying issue and that is why Kevin Foster skirted around that point in his letter?

    We supplied Rental Agreements and utility bills in both names for the whole period we have lived together in France, bank statements in each name at the same address, certificate of cohabitation 2019, certificate of marriage 2020, registration emails confirming WA RP applications at same address, other official letters at same address. We don't understand what the 'inconsistent' is in Kevin Foster's reasoning. No consideration was given to the fact we lived through 2 x covid lockdowns and ongoing restrictions which meant we were very limited in how much we could integrate into the Fr admin system or local community. We also showed proof of our previous 3 year relationship - long distance.

  • #2
    You either upload your documents yourself or upload them at the TLS Centre. Once you have submitted them you cannot add to them. You may get a request from the HO to supply more if you are lucky. So long as you have submitted enough evidence to show you have lived together in that country and the Brit is working before and at the date of the application and prove a 'genuine life/residence' together you should be fine. If you have a 'permanent' residency card for your host country you won't have to prove workers rights so that makes it easier. Mind you what they see and accept as a 'genuine life' to show creating and strengthening that genuine life I am not sure. We got refused on very weak reasons and after reapplying in December it is unsure what will happen because it is taking 6 months or more to obtain a decision. (although saying that ours was done in 3 months from start to finish and we don't know why). The HO state they treat them all in date order yet many people who applied a long time before us and even at the same time are still waiting for a decision. I do believe that some things were different for EU citizens before the HO changed all the rules! and they don't make it clear on the website

    Comment


    • #3

      Originally posted by car22 View Post
      You either upload your documents yourself or upload them at the TLS Centre. Once you have submitted them you cannot add to them. You may get a request from the HO to supply more if you are lucky. So long as you have submitted enough evidence to show you have lived together in that country and the Brit is working before and at the date of the application and prove a 'genuine life/residence' together you should be fine. If you have a 'permanent' residency card for your host country you won't have to prove workers rights so that makes it easier. Mind you what they see and accept as a 'genuine life' to show creating and strengthening that genuine life I am not sure. We got refused on very weak reasons and after reapplying in December it is unsure what will happen because it is taking 6 months or more to obtain a decision. (although saying that ours was done in 3 months from start to finish and we don't know why). The HO state they treat them all in date order yet many people who applied a long time before us and even at the same time are still waiting for a decision. I do believe that some things were different for EU citizens before the HO changed all the rules! and they don't make it clear on the website
      Morning,

      I'm very sorry to hear about your refusal, which, from what you are saying above, does appear to have been unfair.

      I was going to tag a lawyer to comment, but then I noticed the post above, which I copied from this thread: Applying for a family permit for my non-EU spouse from Denmark Surinder Singh - UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

      ...where I note you say you have re-applied in December, so I'm not sure how we can help you with this matter if you have already made a new application.

      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

      Comment


      • #4
        Is there a way of finding out exactly what documents the HO received when uploading from the TLS Centre? There are documents missing from what was uploaded to what was listed in the refusal letter and these documents should have been taken into account regarding our 'genuine life/residency' proof. i.e. they were all addressed to my husband at our address and they were legal documents so would definitely give proof of residence being genuine. I realise nothing can be done now but we may need to know for future appeal. I have been told about the FOI and have requested copies of documents they have in our 'file' but it doesn't seem possible to get a list of documents which the assessor had to assess. I'm wondering if some of documents could have been routed to a different assessor by mistake or something like that?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by car22 View Post
          Is there a way of finding out exactly what documents the HO received when uploading from the TLS Centre? There are documents missing from what was uploaded to what was listed in the refusal letter and these documents should have been taken into account regarding our 'genuine life/residency' proof. i.e. they were all addressed to my husband at our address and they were legal documents so would definitely give proof of residence being genuine. I realise nothing can be done now but we may need to know for future appeal. I have been told about the FOI and have requested copies of documents they have in our 'file' but it doesn't seem possible to get a list of documents which the assessor had to assess. I'm wondering if some of documents could have been routed to a different assessor by mistake or something like that?
          Hello again,

          I've moved your post to your previous thread to keep it all together, as it refers to the same application.

          Tariq N (lawyer) Would you be able to comment on the above?

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations, but unfortunately this is how the HO works. If it's any consolation, the HO requested additional information for a client. I thought I sent this promptly within 2 days, but by a quirk of fate the internet went down at that moment and the email stayed in my Outbox without my realising this. The HO refused the application on the grounds that they did not receive the information. Despite my pleas and the applicant's MP's intervention showing documents prepared at that time (properties) cut no ice. The refusal stood. Totally heartless.

            You can make a Subject Access Request and specifically ask for the documents. Good luck.

            I am the Principal of the Practice ACS Visas and I am a Level 3 Regulated Adviser, authorised by the Office of Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC) to provide advice in both Immigration and Asylum. I am also a volunteer with UKCEN, where I provide one-off advice on a pro-bono basis. This advice should not be considered a substitute for formal legal advice. Please see Tariq N for full details.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tariq N View Post
              Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations, but unfortunately this is how the HO works. If it's any consolation, the HO requested additional information for a client. I thought I sent this promptly within 2 days, but by a quirk of fate the internet went down at that moment and the email stayed in my Outbox without my realising this. The HO refused the application on the grounds that they did not receive the information. Despite my pleas and the applicant's MP's intervention showing documents prepared at that time (properties) cut no ice. The refusal stood. Totally heartless.

              You can make a Subject Access Request and specifically ask for the documents. Good luck.
              Do you know if when you load documents yourself, will they go directly to the HO or via the TLS Centre where you book your bio appointment? Once we have uploaded ourselves would anyone from a particular TLS centre be able to access our documents?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by car22 View Post

                Do you know if when you load documents yourself, will they go directly to the HO or via the TLS Centre where you book your bio appointment? Once we have uploaded ourselves would anyone from a particular TLS centre be able to access our documents?
                Tariq N

                I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are lawyers who have been allocated to work for you allowed to pass your case file to a different law firm to work on and then the allocated lawyer register it in their name with the court? Would it be same ethics in France as it would be in the UK and at Supreme Court level? We had a Conseil d'Etat lawyer allocated to us with judicial aide and when the file was returned to us after a negative decision we found a letter from lawyer to another lawyer in a different firm confirming he was sending our file to him. This lawyer was not an immigration lawyer but an 'economics' lawyer. This is not the first problem we have had with French lawyers and realise they 'have each others backs' so don't know where to go for advice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by car22 View Post
                    Are lawyers who have been allocated to work for you allowed to pass your case file to a different law firm to work on and then the allocated lawyer register it in their name with the court? Would it be same ethics in France as it would be in the UK and at Supreme Court level? We had a Conseil d'Etat lawyer allocated to us with judicial aide and when the file was returned to us after a negative decision we found a letter from lawyer to another lawyer in a different firm confirming he was sending our file to him. This lawyer was not an immigration lawyer but an 'economics' lawyer. This is not the first problem we have had with French lawyers and realise they 'have each others backs' so don't know where to go for advice.
                    Morning

                    Have also moved this post to your previous thread where we have some background info.

                    Tariq N Not sure whether you will also be able to comment on the above, as it refers to France.

                    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tariq N

                      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Aisha R (lawyer) Would you be able to comment?

                        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Olga M (lawyer) Would you be able to comment?

                          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Site Admin Sorry won't be able to comment as I don't deal with appeals/courts.

                            I am an Immigration Adviser and Director with Spectrum Visas LTD, authorised by the Office of Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC) to provide immigration advice and services. I am also a volunteer with UKCEN, where I provide one-off advice on a pro-bono basis. This advice should not be considered a substitute for formal legal advice. Please see Olga M for full details.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gabriella B (lawyer) Would you be able to comment?

                              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X