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  • LAWYER RESPONSE Late application historic data

    Hi, thank you so much for this forum. I only wish I had found it earlier!!

    I had questions about obtaining settled status for my parents. My sister and I are both dual French/US nationals, living in the UK as French citizens since 2014 for her and 2015 for me. We both have Settled Status, and I also just submitted my application for naturalization as a British citizen. (Her American husband has Pre-settled status, and their newborn is a British citizen).

    My parents are currently both dual French/US citizens. They also lived in the UK previously. I think my dad would easily be able to establish residence for 8 years (2002-2010) and my mother for 6 of those (2004-2010). During that time, though, my dad had not acquired US citizenship, and my mother had not acquired French citizenship. In other words, he was here on his French passport and she was here on her American one by virtue of treaty rights. They have not spent more than 5 years since without coming back.

    They didn’t know they were eligible for Settled status, and in any case, the documents they needed were in France and they were stuck in the US because of COVID. I am kicking myself for not realizing that they were eligible before the deadline, but I am wondering if it is worth trying for a late application? They are also in their mid- to late 70s - not sure if that helps.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
    Hi, thank you so much for this forum. I only wish I had found it earlier!!

    I had questions about obtaining settled status for my parents. My sister and I are both dual French/US nationals, living in the UK as French citizens since 2014 for her and 2015 for me. We both have Settled Status, and I also just submitted my application for naturalization as a British citizen. (Her American husband has Pre-settled status, and their newborn is a British citizen).

    My parents are currently both dual French/US citizens. They also lived in the UK previously. I think my dad would easily be able to establish residence for 8 years (2002-2010) and my mother for 6 of those (2004-2010). During that time, though, my dad had not acquired US citizenship, and my mother had not acquired French citizenship. In other words, he was here on his French passport and she was here on her American one by virtue of treaty rights. They have not spent more than 5 years since without coming back.

    They didn’t know they were eligible for Settled status, and in any case, the documents they needed were in France and they were stuck in the US because of COVID. I am kicking myself for not realizing that they were eligible before the deadline, but I am wondering if it is worth trying for a late application? They are also in their mid- to late 70s - not sure if that helps.
    Morning,

    As parents are close family members, they are still eligible to apply as joining family members of an EEA national living in the UK with EUSS status. That means there are two routes here:
    1. Based on historical residence, which can be either as an EEA national or as a family member of one, this would require having lived here for at least 5 years and also showing they never spent a continous 5 year period without coming back, in order to reset the clock. We've already seen a number of successful applications made on historical residence. This has the advantage that, if successful, they would be granted settled status rather than pre-settled, but as the deadline was the end of June, this would be a late application. However, these are still possible as there are provisions for them in the guidance.
    2. As a joining family member, as noted above. There is no deadline for close family members, such as parents, to apply, so this wouldn't be a late application, however, if successful, they would only be granted pre-settled status and would need to move here within 6 months and spend at least 6 months out of every 12, in the UK, for 5 years, in order to maintain continuity of residence and get settled status when pre-settled expires. They will also need to show they are dependent on your or your sister, whoever is going to sponsor them, as dependency for parents is no longer assumed after the end of June.

    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some successsful applications based on historical residence:

      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you look here: provisions for late applications

        ...you'll see:
        Originally posted by Site Admin View Post
        What happens to those who missed the deadline?

        Pages 27-44 of the EUSS Guidance cover late applications.


        People who have missed the deadline must make a valid application either:

        Online: UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families or


        On the relevant paper form: UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

        If you missed the deadline, you need to set out the reasons why you failed to apply before the deadline.

        The updated application form asks those who are applying late, to pick one of the reasons from a rather long list.

        If none of them are applicable and you need to describe your own, there is an option under Compelling and compassionate grounds, to choose "other".

        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

        Comment


        • #5
          This other post: Other compelling and compassionate reasons

          ...says:


          There are various reasons for someone to have failed to apply before the deadline, which may constitute reasonable grounds for a late application.

          Examples:
          • Having been unaware of the requirement to apply, or to apply by the relevant deadline
          • Having no internet access or limited computer literacy
          • Limited English language skills
          • Living overseas
          • Lack of permanent accommodation, which meant not having access to a computer or to the documents required to make an application
          • Having complex needs and not being aware of the support available to help them apply
          • They were prevented from accessing the support available because of restrictions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic
          • They overlooked the need to apply, overlooked the deadline, or failed to get round to applying by the deadline, in light of their personal circumstances
          • They have lived in the UK for a significant period of time and did not realise they still had to make an application
          • They had to apply on a paper form and did not request this from the Resolution Centre until shortly before the relevant deadline.

          I have highlighted some that I assume may apply in this case.

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
            Hi, thank you so much for this forum. I only wish I had found it earlier!!

            I had questions about obtaining settled status for my parents. My sister and I are both dual French/US nationals, living in the UK as French citizens since 2014 for her and 2015 for me. We both have Settled Status, and I also just submitted my application for naturalization as a British citizen. (Her American husband has Pre-settled status, and their newborn is a British citizen).
            Although it's still possible to sponsor a close family member, when the sponsor has become British, the application does become considerably more complex, as noted here: Impact on family members

            However, in this case, the application has just been submitted, so you are not British yet. Unfortunately, I saw a couple of cases where people did exactly the same, i.e. the family member applied online before the sponsor had their ceremony, then when the sponsor became British, they were told to re-apply using the Lounes paper form mentioned in the post above. I am still in the process of disputing this with the Home Office. However, as there are two of you, the other sibling could still be the sponsor in the event your parents had to take that route.

            Having said that, I'd say they should attempt the late application based on historical residence route first, as that would give them full settled status and dependency, etc. wouldn't come into it. In the event that route failed, they could always fall back on the joining family member route.

            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

            Comment


            • #7

              Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
              My parents are currently both dual French/US citizens. They also lived in the UK previously. I think my dad would easily be able to establish residence for 8 years (2002-2010) and my mother for 6 of those (2004-2010). During that time, though, my dad had not acquired US citizenship, and my mother had not acquired French citizenship. In other words, he was here on his French passport and she was here on her American one by virtue of treaty rights. They have not spent more than 5 years since without coming back.
              In that case, they should be able to meet the criteria that the other successful applicants noted above also met.


              Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
              They didn’t know they were eligible for Settled status,
              One of the grounds for late applications is:
              • They overlooked the need to apply, overlooked the deadline, or failed to get round to applying by the deadline, in light of their personal circumstances

              Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
              and in any case, the documents they needed were in France and they were stuck in the US because of COVID. I am kicking myself for not realizing that they were eligible before the deadline,
              There are further gounds such as:
              • Lack of permanent accommodation, which meant not having access to a computer or to the documents required to make an application
              • Having complex needs and not being aware of the support available to help them apply
              • They were prevented from accessing the support available because of restrictions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic
              So it's a mix and match really, but they are all grounds.

              Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
              but I am wondering if it is worth trying for a late application? They are also in their mid- to late 70s - not sure if that helps.
              Definitely, on both counts! Their age should also work in their favour for the reasons noted above.

              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

              Comment


              • #8
                Aslo refer to the following:

                Originally posted by Site Admin View Post

                Relevant evidence of this could include:
                • evidence – such as a letter from a relative, carer or care home – that the person’s personal circumstances and their digital or language skills meant that they were unable to make the application
                • evidence of being outside the UK in the months before the deadline
                • a letter from a charity or homeless shelter confirming the person’s circumstances
                • information from the DWP
                • information from the applicant, such as regarding their attempts to access support with the application

                I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks very much, this is all very helpful. Just to confirm, if going for the settled status based on historical evidence route, my mother would need to apply on her US passport as she was here on that passport, even though she now has French as well? Already working with my Dad to try to get this sorted!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
                    Thanks very much, this is all very helpful. Just to confirm, if going for the settled status based on historical evidence route, my mother would need to apply on her US passport as she was here on that passport, even though she now has French as well? Already working with my Dad to try to get this sorted!
                    Morning,

                    If she was living here as a US citizen married to an EU national, then she should have had a residence card issued on the basis of the relationship, and if they were married and living here over 5 years, she should have been issued with a PR card on the basis of the relationship. Although these documents would now be expired, she should have them somewhere. A PR card would certainly make matters much easier, as that would be enough to prove both the relationship and the length of residence.

                    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hmmm. I don’t think she ever had a PR Card - she had some sort of visa (which is now in an expired American passport at home in the US). My father worked for an international organization, and that is what they gave her/him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
                        Hmmm. I don’t think she ever had a PR Card - she had some sort of visa (which is now in an expired American passport at home in the US). My father worked for an international organization, and that is what they gave her/him.
                        It was only in 2015 they started issuing pink biometric cards, before that, it was mostly endorsements in passports, and even PR would have been like that back in the old days, so that's probably what you are referring to, is there any way someone in the US could dig up the passport, take photos, and email them to you to see what it is? After all, documents have to be uploaded in digital format when making the application anyway.

                        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes that sound exactly like what she had! Super super helpful. She knows she kept the passport and is sending a friend to dig it up. Fingers crossed!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tieu9 View Post
                            Yes that sound exactly like what she had! Super super helpful. She knows she kept the passport and is sending a friend to dig it up. Fingers crossed!!
                            Best of luck and don't forget to keep us posted!

                            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Passport located and friend sending PDFs through later today!!

                              In terms of proving ID via the EU exit app, it seems either we need to use her French passport to prove ID, or we need to enter a biometric residence card which she does not have. Could she prove her ID with her French passport even though she is making the submission using her American one?

                              Comment

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