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Brother 2 EUSS application

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  • #16
    Also, and this might be a foolish idea, nut from a conceptual point of view, it might be easier for the Home Office to stomach a request to extend my brother's pre settled status by 6 months for example due to his covid absence rather than asking for them to allow him to grant his pre settled status again.


    So for the sake of argument he could ask for 6 months, and have 4.5 years of residency left, which would technically allow him to be here for 6 months every year for 5 years (assuming he spends every day of the first 6 months of his 5th year in the UK).

    Just a thought, since I've reread the pre settled status letter and it definitely seems like it gives a person 5 years from the date of the letter to reach 5 years' continously residence, so if they could his period of absence from July 2020 until May 2021 as an important reason, he could be allowed to get the 5 years' continuous residence from June 2021 onwards. It's just a thought really, it just seems like the guidance seems to be written more for an existing pre settled status than applying for a new one though there is mention of such an application within the new guidance.

    Comment


    • #17
      Morning,

      I should think he would have a case under the provisions.

      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi Site Admin,

        I missed some of your posts on the previous page, which will be very helpful moving forward. I talked to an immigration solicitor (its a 30 minute consultation, you probably know of the firm but I won't state their name just in case that's not allowed).

        He answered some my questions that I had here, it's a mixed bag in my eyes.

        According to him (and this explanation makes good sense to me) - the qualifying period for my brother would start on Feb 2020, the time he was there last, not July 2020. This actually tracks logically - the expiry date for the pre settled status is really just a date by which people need to apply for settled status, but they can't start their qualifying period from the time they are granted pre-settled status, even if for example you could show that in the period from July 2020 to June 2025 my brother was here for 6 months out of every 12 months, it would not matter since he would have been absent for more than 12 months (Feb 2020 to June 2021).

        However, he did have hope for his case since he said corona could also justify absences over 12 months, with more stringment requirements. I didn't take note of it because I focused more on a single period of up to 12 months.

        As I am sure you know, the guidance says the following:

        However, if you have been absent for an ‘important reason’ – whether because of coronavirus or for another important reason – but your absence has exceeded 12 months because coronavirus meant you were prevented from, or advised against, returning to the UK earlier, you have exceeded the absence permitted under Appendix EU.

        You can still apply to the EUSS where you can evidence that this extended absence is because coronavirus meant you were prevented from, or advised against, returning to the UK within 12 months and for a period thereafter.

        This includes (but is not limited to) where you can show you were:
        • ill with coronavirus
        • in quarantine, self-isolating or shielding in accordance with local public health guidance on coronavirus
        • caring for a family member affected by coronavirus
        • prevented from returning earlier to the UK due to travel disruption caused by coronavirus
        • advised by your university or employer not to return to the UK, and to continue studying or working remotely from your home country, due to coronavirus

        Now, by some divine luck on my brother's part, his residency in the UK 2020 was around 31st Jan/1st Feb 2020 or so (that's when he was in the UK last).

        As I mentioned, Israel's complete and total shutdown of it's sole international airport to any exit or entry (even by citizens) started on 25 Jan 2021 (with around 24 hour notice given to everyone of this, mind you). The first stage (100% total shutdown) lasted for around 3 weeks, and the second stage (95% shutdown) lasted for another 4 weeks.

        Ironically, the reason for the shutdown was the Kent variant. Several flights from the UK had come in and passengers were discovered with it, and it soon became apparent that people weren't observing quarantine after their flights, and that this could severely harm the immunsation drive which was entering into high gear (which it did - the spread of the variant pretty much froze the number of infected people for an additional 2-3 weeks despite having 35% of the population vaccinated due to the massive spread of the Kent variant, but in late January was thought at the time that stopping all flights could prevent its entry in force so the government did not realize ). Hence, the government took the (as they defined it) "unprecedented step" of a literal total shutdown of all commercial flights by any carrier with the exception of cargo flights, for around 3 weeks, following which, the airport continued to stay closed for 4 more weeks but they had special repatriation flights for people that had a qualifying reason.

        For the end of January until Mid February, the airport stayed shut down for everyone - except for medical reasons, for a funeral of a family member, for participating in a legal proceeding (so if you're in a custody battle and you have been required by law to appear), and if you have a crucial job that requires your departure (e.g. diplomat, member of government, etc). Otherwise, only exceptional cases could try and apply to a special committee (which was flooded with thousands of applications fairly immediately to no avail). Oh, and as mentioned, even if you were allowed to leave, during those first 2-3 weeks you could maybe take a 10000 USD private flight, but other than maybe 1 or 2 special flights to New York, you would not have been able to fly anywhere. From Mid Feb to around 20 March 2021, the airport was around 95% closed, except for those exceptional cases and Israelis wanting to return to Israel.


        Now, I will first note that no one knew that these coronavirus absence regulations would even come out. But let's say my brother had prophetic abilities, and knew that coronavirus would allow him to step up to 12 months abroad, or more likely, as a lawyer in his own right, figured that covid could count as an "important reason" under the existing definition. He would then have needed to come back at the start of February to prevent himself from being more than a year outside of the UK. However, that would not have been possible, since he was literally prevented from doing so by some of the world's most stringent flight ban (pretty much close to the level of Australia and New Zealand's bans). Israelis were literally stuck abroad for weeks waiting for someone to open up a flight for them to arrive home, the only time that came even close was end of March 2020 and April 2020 when all flights were shut down.


        Now the Home Office may say that he could have returned after March 2021, but realistically, by that point he knew he had exceeded 12 months anyway, which as per the then current regulations meant he would never ever be able to convert to settled status no matter how important the reason. But even if the Home Office only chooses to recognize Feb 2020 to March 2021, that would still be enough for him to apply for settled status if they extend his pre settled status.

        The lawyer said they would try and work with my brother and be flexible as they can, and that he thought there was a good chance they'd accept it, but I am (as I always am, I suppose) anxious, and am trying to think of providing as much evidence as I can, but realisticly the evidence are mostly the articles about the shutdown, the official government announcement etc. The government had given so little notice (and flights had been impossible to find) that I think it truly was an exceptional situation justifying his inability to not exceed 12 months absence as planned.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
          Hi Site Admin,

          I missed some of your posts on the previous page, which will be very helpful moving forward. I talked to an immigration solicitor (its a 30 minute consultation, you probably know of the firm but I won't state their name just in case that's not allowed).
          Afternoon,

          It is not unusual for lawyers to offer 30 minute consultations, so that doesn't give me any indication as to the firm. You don't need to tell us who you spoke to, unless it was one of our own lawyers.


          Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
          He answered some my questions that I had here, it's a mixed bag in my eyes.

          According to him (and this explanation makes good sense to me) - the qualifying period for my brother would start on Feb 2020, the time he was there last, not July 2020. This actually tracks logically - the expiry date for the pre settled status is really just a date by which people need to apply for settled status, but they can't start their qualifying period from the time they are granted pre-settled status, even if for example you could show that in the period from July 2020 to June 2025 my brother was here for 6 months out of every 12 months, it would not matter since he would have been absent for more than 12 months (Feb 2020 to June 2021).
          If you are referring to when the 5 years start, obviously they do need to start from when the person was here, not when they weren't here.

          Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
          However, he did have hope for his case since he said corona could also justify absences over 12 months, with more stringment requirements. I didn't take note of it because I focused more on a single period of up to 12 months.

          As I am sure you know, the guidance says the following:

          However, if you have been absent for an ‘important reason’ – whether because of coronavirus or for another important reason – but your absence has exceeded 12 months because coronavirus meant you were prevented from, or advised against, returning to the UK earlier, you have exceeded the absence permitted under Appendix EU.

          You can still apply to the EUSS where you can evidence that this extended absence is because coronavirus meant you were prevented from, or advised against, returning to the UK within 12 months and for a period thereafter.

          This includes (but is not limited to) where you can show you were:
          • ill with coronavirus
          • in quarantine, self-isolating or shielding in accordance with local public health guidance on coronavirus
          • caring for a family member affected by coronavirus
          • prevented from returning earlier to the UK due to travel disruption caused by coronavirus
          • advised by your university or employer not to return to the UK, and to continue studying or working remotely from your home country, due to coronavirus
          Yes, I posted them up when the Home Office published them, here: New Covid provisions published for EU Settlement applicants - UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

          Comment


          • #20

            Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
            Now, by some divine luck on my brother's part, his residency in the UK 2020 was around 31st Jan/1st Feb 2020 or so (that's when he was in the UK last).

            As I mentioned, Israel's complete and total shutdown of it's sole international airport to any exit or entry (even by citizens) started on 25 Jan 2021 (with around 24 hour notice given to everyone of this, mind you). The first stage (100% total shutdown) lasted for around 3 weeks, and the second stage (95% shutdown) lasted for another 4 weeks.
            Well, if I was the Home Office, I would question what happened in between, as we are now looking at a year after he left. So he needs to be prepared to explain this.

            Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
            Ironically, the reason for the shutdown was the Kent variant. Several flights from the UK had come in and passengers were discovered with it, and it soon became apparent that people weren't observing quarantine after their flights, and that this could severely harm the immunsation drive which was entering into high gear (which it did - the spread of the variant pretty much froze the number of infected people for an additional 2-3 weeks despite having 35% of the population vaccinated due to the massive spread of the Kent variant, but in late January was thought at the time that stopping all flights could prevent its entry in force so the government did not realize ). Hence, the government took the (as they defined it) "unprecedented step" of a literal total shutdown of all commercial flights by any carrier with the exception of cargo flights, for around 3 weeks, following which, the airport continued to stay closed for 4 more weeks but they had special repatriation flights for people that had a qualifying reason.
            The infamous Kent variant caused hysteria around the world as I think I previously told you earlier on this thread. I always found it rather bizarre, since I live in Kent and it was discovered her since September, yet most cases at the time were happening up north, so not exactly connected to this allegedly more infectious variant. We had low cases in Kent at the time, so much so when they put up the tiered system, we were in Tier 1!

            Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
            For the end of January until Mid February, the airport stayed shut down for everyone - except for medical reasons, for a funeral of a family member, for participating in a legal proceeding (so if you're in a custody battle and you have been required by law to appear), and if you have a crucial job that requires your departure (e.g. diplomat, member of government, etc). Otherwise, only exceptional cases could try and apply to a special committee (which was flooded with thousands of applications fairly immediately to no avail). Oh, and as mentioned, even if you were allowed to leave, during those first 2-3 weeks you could maybe take a 10000 USD private flight, but other than maybe 1 or 2 special flights to New York, you would not have been able to fly anywhere. From Mid Feb to around 20 March 2021, the airport was around 95% closed, except for those exceptional cases and Israelis wanting to return to Israel.
            This is something he will definitely have to document.

            Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
            Now, I will first note that no one knew that these coronavirus absence regulations would even come out.
            The Home Office didn't know it either, they were the response to a legal challenge from Here for Good Law, against the previous provisions published last December, which fell short of what was required under the circumstances, especially in view of new developments this year, such as the Kent variant hysteria resulting in shutdowns around the world just like what you mention, and the decision of the UK government to put us on lockdown for most of this year, also affecting incoming flights.

            Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
            But let's say my brother had prophetic abilities, and knew that coronavirus would allow him to step up to 12 months abroad, or more likely, as a lawyer in his own right, figured that covid could count as an "important reason" under the existing definition. He would then have needed to come back at the start of February to prevent himself from being more than a year outside of the UK. However, that would not have been possible, since he was literally prevented from doing so by some of the world's most stringent flight ban (pretty much close to the level of Australia and New Zealand's bans). Israelis were literally stuck abroad for weeks waiting for someone to open up a flight for them to arrive home, the only time that came even close was end of March 2020 and April 2020 when all flights were shut down.
            Something he should find fairly easy to document I suppose.

            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
              Now the Home Office may say that he could have returned after March 2021, but realistically, by that point he knew he had exceeded 12 months anyway, which as per the then current regulations meant he would never ever be able to convert to settled status no matter how important the reason. But even if the Home Office only chooses to recognize Feb 2020 to March 2021, that would still be enough for him to apply for settled status if they extend his pre settled status.
              After all this, I'm not sure whether he has returned or not, but you should be mindful of the following:

              The period of absence exceeding 12 months will not be counted towards your continuous qualifying period of residence under the EU Settlement Scheme. Your continuous qualifying period will be paused from the point your absence reached 12 months and will resume from the point you return to the UK.
              In practice, this means a period of absence over 18 months is likely to make it almost impossible to obtain settled status, since the extra months after 12 months don't count as residence and, if they are more than 6 months, then, even if the 12 month absence was accepted, we'd still have the issue of this period over 6 months, if you see what I mean.

              Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
              The lawyer said they would try and work with my brother and be flexible as they can, and that he thought there was a good chance they'd accept it, but I am (as I always am, I suppose) anxious, and am trying to think of providing as much evidence as I can, but realisticly the evidence are mostly the articles about the shutdown, the official government announcement etc. The government had given so little notice (and flights had been impossible to find) that I think it truly was an exceptional situation justifying his inability to not exceed 12 months absence as planned.

              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

              Comment


              • #22
                In response to some of the questions you had -

                1) Yes, my brother has been back in the UK since 24 June 2021. He's travelled back the minute I told him that absences due to coronavirus might not ruin his chances to get settled status one day, I am aware that an absence over 18 months is impossible if someone wishes to reach settled status.

                2) Regarding why he didn't come earlier in Jan 2021 or late December 2020... there's actually a good coronavirus related reason for why he didn't come earlier in January 2021.

                He had received his first dose of the Pfizer vaccine at the end of December (young people usually don't get it that early, but his long term spouse is a doctor so as her "family" he is considered among the 1st groups along with her.

                He needed to be in Israel 3 weeks later to receive the 2nd shot (and ideally wait a week before travelling). If he'd gone to the United Kingdom during that time, he would have had to quarantine for whatever amount of days people needed to quarantine (10 days?) plus another 14 days when he came back to Israel. Now, you can't leave quarantine to get the covid vaccine (since you risk infecting other people), and the UK during January 2021 was the last place someone who was about to get a covid vaccine would have gone. Realistically, his plan was to get the 2nd shot of the vaccine, wait a week and then travel to the UK. All that would have been possible towards the end of January, and would have meant he could have arrived there fully vaccinated. Plus, the Israeli government decided to give around 30 hours of notice to people on this travel shutdown, much like Boris Johnson did on his Christmas U-turn, which frankly, left people with little time to take the nececsaary PCR tests to even fly to or from Israel, not to mention that tickets were all sold out within an hour as people bought whatever they could.

                So I think if the theme of the "exception" is coronavirus absence, there's not a lot of better reasons why someone would be absent in Jan 2021 and would want to play it safe - it wasn't that he was "testing his luck", it's just that the UK was having 60,000+ infected people a day, 1000+ deaths dialy, and at the time it was stressed that 1 vaccine dose is not enough, the high efficancy rate was only officially tested with 2 doses, so for all we knew 1 dose could have had a much lower efficancy rate (and the Kent variant was also said to be more spreadable and I'm fairly certain the Pfizer vaccine was not yet tested against it, I think Israel actually provided much of the data since the Kent variant became widespread through Israel giving the world information on how the vaccine managed against the variant).
                Last edited by zlabb2004; 03-07-2021, 08:27 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
                  In response to some of the questions you had -

                  1) Yes, my brother has been back in the UK since 24 June 2021. He's travelled back the minute I told him that absences due to coronavirus might not ruin his chances to get settled status one day, I am aware that an absence over 18 months is impossible if someone wishes to reach settled status.
                  Morning,

                  Good to hear he made it back!

                  Delighted to have been able to help with that!

                  We wouldn't want people missing out due to lack of info regarding the new provisions.

                  I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                  Comment


                  • #24


                    Originally posted by zlabb2004 View Post
                    2) Regarding why he didn't come earlier in Jan 2021 or late December 2020... there's actually a good coronavirus related reason for why he didn't come earlier in January 2021.

                    He had received his first dose of the Pfizer vaccine at the end of December (young people usually don't get it that early, but his long term spouse is a doctor so as her "family" he is considered among the 1st groups along with her.

                    He needed to be in Israel 3 weeks later to receive the 2nd shot (and ideally wait a week before travelling). If he'd gone to the United Kingdom during that time, he would have had to quarantine for whatever amount of days people needed to quarantine (10 days?) plus another 14 days when he came back to Israel. Now, you can't leave quarantine to get the covid vaccine (since you risk infecting other people), and the UK during January 2021 was the last place someone who was about to get a covid vaccine would have gone. Realistically, his plan was to get the 2nd shot of the vaccine, wait a week and then travel to the UK. All that would have been possible towards the end of January, and would have meant he could have arrived there fully vaccinated. Plus, the Israeli government decided to give around 30 hours of notice to people on this travel shutdown, much like Boris Johnson did on his Christmas U-turn, which frankly, left people with little time to take the nececsaary PCR tests to even fly to or from Israel, not to mention that tickets were all sold out within an hour as people bought whatever they could.

                    So I think if the theme of the "exception" is coronavirus absence, there's not a lot of better reasons why someone would be absent in Jan 2021 and would want to play it safe - it wasn't that he was "testing his luck", it's just that the UK was having 60,000+ infected people a day, 1000+ deaths dialy, and at the time it was stressed that 1 vaccine dose is not enough, the high efficancy rate was only officially tested with 2 doses, so for all we knew 1 dose could have had a much lower efficancy rate (and the Kent variant was also said to be more spreadable and I'm fairly certain the Pfizer vaccine was not yet tested against it, I think Israel actually provided much of the data since the Kent variant became widespread through Israel giving the world information on how the vaccine managed against the variant).
                    From what you are saying above, it does sound like he would be able to make a very good case for the absence under the provisions.

                    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                    Comment

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