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Naturalisation for mum and a 17 year old

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  • Naturalisation for mum and a 17 year old

    Hi,

    So, a very stressed mum needs some clarification.

    Child and myself have EUSS since 2019.
    Child was NOT born in the UK but spent most of their lives here.
    Having looked at various options, it seems, the only way for the CHILD to become British before they turn 18 is if I apply for citizenship as well.

    As I have settled status and passed the +1 year so I can apply for the citizenship (languge is done, UK test will be done).
    How do I attach child to the application? By completing the MN1 form for them?
    What proofs and how many do I need to attach to my and their application for proof or residency?? I read the guidance notes but it isn't quite clear, so a list would be fab.

    And do I need a specific proof for the day 5 years prior to the application being submitted, that I was in the UK on that day?
    And is it true that income and benefits don't matter anyore at this stage?

    Thank you very much!





  • #2
    Originally posted by Monka View Post
    Hi,

    So, a very stressed mum needs some clarification.

    Child and myself have EUSS since 2019.
    Child was NOT born in the UK but spent most of their lives here.
    Having looked at various options, it seems, the only way for the CHILD to become British before they turn 18 is if I apply for citizenship as well.
    Hello again,

    I'm a little confused, as I've just responded to your other thread where you said:

    Originally posted by Monka View Post
    I have been living and working in the UK since 2009 and excersiced my treaty rights, however as I did receive benefits, child won't meet the critera for automatic citizenship.

    Do I understand it correctly that I can apply for him to be registered to become British as per "Section 1(3) -A child born in the UK whose parents are not British citizens and were not settled in the UK will have an entitlement to register when one of their parents become settled in the UK or become British citizens"?

    And I can apply for this on the MN1 form only for him, without me needing to apply for the British citizenship myself, right???
    And I assume it doesn't matter that he is only 4.5 and won't have lived in the UK for 5 years yet?
    So, from your other thread, it looked to me like you were not considering applying for citizenship for yourself.

    You are right in saying that a child born abroad can usually only be registered if one parent also applies at the same time, as noted here: Children born abroad

    ...where you'll see:
    This document provides guidance on the registration of children under 18:

    MN1 Guidance

    On page 13, it says the following:
    Registration at the Home Secretary’s discretion – Section 3(1) application

    Children born abroad to parents who are applying for British citizenship

    Where one or both parents are applying for British citizenship they may apply for one or more children who are not automatically British at birth (see “Automatic acquisition of British citizenship” above) to be registered as British citizens as part of a “family application”. Children in this category will be considered at the Home Secretary’s discretion and will usually be registered only if both the parents are granted or already hold British citizenship, or if one parent holds British citizenship and the other is settled in the UK.

    As the child is very close to turning 18, they can apply for naturalisation in their own right as soon as they turn 18, provided they meet the rest of the criteria, including the language and LITUK requirement, in which case you wouldn't need to apply yourself if you don't wish to do so.

    I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

    Comment


    • #3
      The post linked above also says:
      Please note the following:
      the parents’ nationality and immigration status – we expect either both parents to be British citizens or one parent a British citizen and the other parent settled in the UK
      Where the child does not have ongoing contact with the other parent, the parent having day-to-day responsibility for the child should normally be, or be about to become, a British citizen, unless they are settled here and there are strong reasons why registration would be appropriate.
      If the child's other parent hasn't got ILR, including settled status, or doesn't live in the UK, you would also need to explain the situation in your cover letter.



      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

      Comment


      • #4


        Originally posted by Monka View Post
        As I have settled status and passed the +1 year so I can apply for the citizenship (languge is done, UK test will be done).
        How do I attach child to the application? By completing the MN1 form for them?
        We have covered this here: Family applications and dependents

        ...where you'll see:
        You can include family members in your application. Once you start your form, you get the option to add spouses, children and siblings to the form.

        However, each individual will be assessed against the statutory requirements in their own right.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	image_314.png Views:	3 Size:	42.4 KB ID:	5890

        The fees are the same as for individual applications, there are no savings nor discounts for applying together as a family.

        The main advantage of a family application is to have just one UKVCAS appointment for all applicants, as well as being able to upload shared supporting evidence where relevant.

        It is possible to add a family member at any point during the application, as long as the form has not been submitted. To do this, click on the All Applicants link that appears at the top of the form, as shown below:

        Click image for larger version  Name:	AllApplicantsBack.png Views:	2 Size:	30.6 KB ID:	26081

        Once you are on the All Applicants page, follow the process noted above.

        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Monka View Post
          What proofs and how many do I need to attach to my and their application for proof or residency?? I read the guidance notes but it isn't quite clear, so a list would be fab.
          Unlike naturalisation, registration via MN1 form doesn't require evidence of residence for the last 5 years. Once you complete the form, it will generate a checklist with the documents you are expected to submit with the application, this is where you get the list, as it may vary depending on the answers given on the form.

          Originally posted by Monka View Post
          And do I need a specific proof for the day 5 years prior to the application being submitted, that I was in the UK on that day?
          If you look here: The residence requirement

          ...you'll note:
          There is no requirement to provide any evidence of having been present in the UK on the relevant date when submitting your application.

          This would be worked out from the list of trips abroad on the AN form.

          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Monka View Post
            And is it true that income and benefits don't matter anyore at this stage?
            If you look here: Employment history - UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

            ...you'll see:
            Employment history

            You must provide details of your employment history for the 10 years preceding the date of application. If you have been in the UK for less than 10 years, you only need to provide it for the years you have been here.

            This is requested because you are expected to have paid your tax and national insurance to meet the good character requirement. The guidance suggests the evidence that may support a claim to have paid the tax and national insurance, but you don't need to submit this evidence with your application.

            The Home Office will make its own checks of HMRC to make sure tax and national insurance was paid, should they decide to do so.

            If you haven’t been employed all the time, you only need to list the jobs you had.

            You don’t need to explain what you were doing while not employed.

            Gaps in employment do not affect the application. The requirement is lawful residence for the last 3 or 5 years, as noted here: Lawful residence

            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

            Comment


            • #7
              The post linked above also says:
              There is no earnings requirement for naturalisation and there is no need to provide evidence of earnings from employment - just to provide details of your employment history on the form. The guidance suggests some evidence that you may have to help you to identify the information to put on the form.
              There are no questions about benefits on the form, as they are not relevant.

              I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

              Comment


              • #8
                We have put together the following resources which should be your starting point.Also refer to this post: Issues, mistakes, errors and ommisions

                ....and, before going further, you should also be aware of the potential impact on family members you may wish to sponsor in the future.

                Please note that it may also be necessary to show you were exercising treaty rights for the previous 3 or 5 years, as noted here:
                Employment, financial requirements and treaty rights for citizenship - UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

                I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you so much for all the useful links, I will have a look at those I haven't read yet.

                  So you might have figured it by now, as I commented on the other thread that I have two children with different circumstances.
                  Initially I didn't want citizenship for myself, but I want my children to have it to have options for them in the future if they want to travel or live elsewhere without worrying about the 5 yrs limit of absence for SS. However, for my eldest to get settled status without needing to do the tests I would consider applying for myself.

                  As I have a UK degree, I only need to do the life in the UK test which will take some time. So I would apply for a registration for my youngest as he would be automatically eligible (as per other post unless I could apply for a British passport for him instead-will await your respond to that.)

                  So if I were to include my eldest in this form, as I am separated form his dad for ages, and he has no day to day care as he lives abroad, than we don't need to worry about that, just need to explain in the cover letter, right???

                  And I need to explain in the same cover letter why my daughter should get citizenship, right?

                  Absences are ok, we only went on holiday once a year and below the limit, so we are fine, got all the dates for the past 5 years.

                  What is unclear to me, I thought I need to only prove the 5 years prior to application. However, you wrote above "You must provide details of your employment history for the 10 years preceding the date of application. If you have been in the UK for less than 10 years, you only need to provide it for the years you have been here." So why 10 years for employment history and why not 5 as for the other things? Or do I misundertand soemthing here?


                  So I am glad to hear that income is irrelevant and gaps are acceptable. For example, I have not been working since my son was born, I had maternity leave, then got income support (became a single mum having fled an abusive relationship-got evidence, but I gues this won't be needed) then Covid came. I guess it is ok I had no income, however, how do I prove I was resident here? With the EUSS? Or just my bank statements or the past years to cover that period?

                  Thank you!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have an other question as I have been reading the lawful residence section.
                    So I/we all (me and the children) got settled status in March 2019. So it means I certainly have lawful residence in the UK since that date up until today, so 2,5 years. Right? I prove this with my EUSS.
                    As I got SS in March 2019, doesn't that mean that I had been lawfully resident in the UK the 5 years prior to that?? Otherwise I wouldn't have got it, no? So do I also prove this with the EUSS? Or I still need to provide evidence of employment etc for this period to prove lawful residence?
                    Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Originally posted by Monka View Post
                      The consent question relates to my 17 yo daughter.
                      I have copied this bit to this thread as it's not relevant to the child discussed on the other thread, so better to keep them separate.


                      Originally posted by Monka View Post
                      But her situation is way more complex. She was born in Germany in 2004 out of wedlock. She is German as well as Hungarian. I got separated from Dad and we moved to the UK/Scotland in 2009. Father stayed in Germany. Under Scotts Law he has no Parental Rights (got a letter from a solicitor to confirm this). So here in Scotland I am treated as having sole custody and his permition is never needed. We have been living here since 2009, so over 12 years now. We got the EUSS in 2019. I would like to get her the citixenship, but my understanding is that I can't use the MN1 form for her to register her. So I thought ok, I will apply to citizenship (didn't want to initially) and include her.
                      As discussed above, children born in the UK can normally only be registered if at least one parent also applies at the same time, unlike children born in the UK who can register as soon as a parent gets ILR.

                      Originally posted by Monka View Post
                      But having read more, it seems like I can't as her father is abroad?! So to me, reading the guidance it seems like they don't consider single parent families at all. So not sure if I can include her on my application with the MN1 form with the discretion application. But then I might need father's consent, however, as I quoted the guidance, it is condradictory for me. So no clue what I need to do.
                      Actually, I did cover this yesterday:

                      Originally posted by Site Admin View Post
                      The post linked above also says:
                      Please note the following:

                      Where the child does not have ongoing contact with the other parent, the parent having day-to-day responsibility for the child should normally be, or be about to become, a British citizen, unless they are settled here and there are strong reasons why registration would be appropriate.
                      If the child's other parent hasn't got ILR, including settled status, or doesn't live in the UK, you would also need to explain the situation in your cover letter.
                      So it is possible to apply as a single parent, as long as the parent in question also applies for citizenship, which is what we are discussing here, you just need to explain the situation regarding the other parent in the cover letter.

                      I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Originally posted by Monka View Post
                        Oh and on the top of that, I found out that as she is German, we might need to get the permission form Germany to retain her German citizenship before we apply for the British. Again German guidance is very unclear, and there is little to no info on minors at all

                        Thank you so much for your help.
                        Unfortunately we are not able to advise on German nationality rules, this is something you need to check with the relevant authorities or get legal advice from a German nationality lawyer, as the rules can be complex. As far as I'm aware, different rules apply to those who acquired British citizenship by birth, while those who acquired it by naturalisation had to apply before the end of last year to retain their German nationality, as noted here: German nationals.

                        It looks like it may be necessary to apply for a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung:This is something outside the scope of this British immigration and nationality forum, and it would probably mean not being able to apply for registration before she turns 18.

                        I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Monka View Post
                          Thank you so much for all the useful links, I will have a look at those I haven't read yet.

                          So you might have figured it by now, as I commented on the other thread that I have two children with different circumstances.
                          Initially I didn't want citizenship for myself, but I want my children to have it to have options for them in the future if they want to travel or live elsewhere without worrying about the 5 yrs limit of absence for SS. However, for my eldest to get settled status without needing to do the tests I would consider applying for myself.

                          As I have a UK degree, I only need to do the life in the UK test which will take some time. So I would apply for a registration for my youngest as he would be automatically eligible (as per other post unless I could apply for a British passport for him instead-will await your respond to that.)
                          I have responded quite extensively on the other thread, I'd say it's worth a shot to try to apply for the passport, please read all my notes there. I'm trying to keep the two applications separate on separate threads to avoid confusion.

                          Originally posted by Monka View Post
                          So if I were to include my eldest in this form, as I am separated form his dad for ages, and he has no day to day care as he lives abroad, than we don't need to worry about that, just need to explain in the cover letter, right???

                          And I need to explain in the same cover letter why my daughter should get citizenship, right?
                          Yes, as noted in my earlier responses.

                          Originally posted by Monka View Post
                          Absences are ok, we only went on holiday once a year and below the limit, so we are fine, got all the dates for the past 5 years.
                          Not all under 18 registration applications ask for a list of absences, you will find that, depending on the other answers given on the online form, this question ma or may not appear. But since you say it's not an issue, then it's fine even if this question appears.

                          Originally posted by Monka View Post
                          What is unclear to me, I thought I need to only prove the 5 years prior to application. However, you wrote above "You must provide details of your employment history for the 10 years preceding the date of application. If you have been in the UK for less than 10 years, you only need to provide it for the years you have been here." So why 10 years for employment history and why not 5 as for the other things? Or do I misundertand soemthing here?
                          To clarify, this is only for the adult naturalisation application, and I also covered this yesterday:


                          Originally posted by Site Admin View Post
                          If you look here: Employment history - UKCEN Citizenship and Residence for European Nationals and their families

                          ...you'll see:
                          Employment history

                          You must provide details of your employment history for the 10 years preceding the date of application. If you have been in the UK for less than 10 years, you only need to provide it for the years you have been here.

                          This is requested because you are expected to have paid your tax and national insurance to meet the good character requirement. The guidance suggests the evidence that may support a claim to have paid the tax and national insurance, but you don't need to submit this evidence with your application.

                          I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Monka View Post
                            So I am glad to hear that income is irrelevant and gaps are acceptable. For example, I have not been working since my son was born, I had maternity leave, then got income support (became a single mum having fled an abusive relationship-got evidence, but I gues this won't be needed) then Covid came. I guess it is ok I had no income, however, how do I prove I was resident here? With the EUSS? Or just my bank statements or the past years to cover that period?
                            Originally posted by Monka View Post
                            I have an other question as I have been reading the lawful residence section.
                            So I/we all (me and the children) got settled status in March 2019. So it means I certainly have lawful residence in the UK since that date up until today, so 2,5 years. Right? I prove this with my EUSS.
                            As I got SS in March 2019, doesn't that mean that I had been lawfully resident in the UK the 5 years prior to that?? Otherwise I wouldn't have got it, no? So do I also prove this with the EUSS? Or I still need to provide evidence of employment etc for this period to prove lawful residence?
                            Thank you.
                            Actually no, since the EUSS only takes into account living in the UK and nothing else, however, in view of the fact that you may not be able to apply to register your daughter while she is still a minor in the first place, and the only reason you were looking into citizenship for yourself was in order to apply for her registration, then we should probably leave these bits on hold till you have decided on a course of action, as it would appear that you'd need to get a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung in order to stop her from losing her German citizenship, and this may not come in time to apply while she's still a minor. If she turns 18, as she was born abroad, she will hvae to apply for naturalisation in her own right subject to the absences, LITUK and language requirements, etc. in the usual way, however, you wouldn't need to apply with her as the naturalisation of adults 18+ is not linked to parents also applying.

                            I am the Site Manager and Webmaster, please refer to our Admin Team, Roles and Responsibilities. If you think we have helped in any way, please support us so we can keep helping others secure their status, it is now more important than ever now EEA nationals are subject to the same immigration requirements as non EEA nationals and require proof of valid status in the UK.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you so much for all this. I am still awaiting for the reply from the German Embassy regarding retaining German nationality, so I will get back to this thread once I know how we proceed.

                              Comment

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